Let's not get into healthcare here. I'm fine with debating political ideology as long as it's connected back to our environmental problems.

Yeah you are right I will have to work on my spelling and grammar a bit.

Yes, but back then the natural world still was relatively unaffected by humans, no smog, no large tracks of land cleared for housing, no livestock farms, no over fishing and major wildlife depletion because of us. The world was at it's best and naturally clean. Because there were less people they could enjoy the world at it's best not having to share it with 6 billion other people.

I said this assuming everyone had lifestyles like an average American. So if all 6(might be 7 by now) something billion people in the world had are lifestyles the amount of land in acres needed to support them all would be enough to cover 2-3 more earths.

My point is that there are just too many people on earth to have these incredibly wasteful(therefore environmentally harmful) lifestyles.


You're right. I think we need to revise our government a bit. Everything is either far right or left...we need a middle-ground.

Yeah it sucks but companies all want money in the end, however I have seen some with presidents that care for the environment but not many.

Here's the problem and why I get so frustrated when I think about our government:

You already agreed that we need a push from the government to get us going on the right track(because we won't change our lifestyles enough otherwise) but this requires the government to make more restrictions on things in our lifestyles.

So we will never change because at the moment the government puts restrictions on anything the cry of SOCIALISM!!! is heard everywhere. We are spoiled with freedoms.

We will eventually crash and burn because of this. We will resist any attempt to help the world and our country because of this irrational fear of government power. We need our government to be more powerful more than ever right now. To help the environment we need to drastically change our gluttonous lifestyles, which won't happen on a large enough scale unless the government pushes us and puts regulations into our lifestyles.

But the government will never succeed because of the very people that are the reason for existence...Us.

People seem to be so afraid of the only thing that will stop us from wiping ourselves out. We need a strong government now. We will never unite as a whole otherwise because of the freedoms of our country.

And guess who is to thank for the SOCIALIST!! battle cries?

Earthquakes......KICK ASS

I'm actually pretty glad I was born, but I see your point. Environmental damage is inevitable, but our global citizens should seek to find their own ways of reducing environmental damage as much as possible. Since I'm especially fond of the civil liberties guaranteed to us in the U.S. Constitution, I would rather see a free market approach to this matter. We can't just give up our liberties in the name of domestic and environmental security. After all, Ben Franklin once said that those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty or security. Let's find a way to solve the environmental problems of our times without forcing others to give up their liberties.

Yes, but government mandates and regulations should not be the first things to turn to in a free society. The wonderful thing that people take for granted is that the free market has a history of solving its own imperfections. Take the Industrial Revolution, for example. We had the industry polluting our air and water horribly, but because of the profits and innovations produced by market competition, cleaner energies were created and expanded, and we eventually saw these new energies clean up our cities. It was because everyone was sick of living in filthy environments, and we needed more efficiency and productivity in the market, so industry had to figure out a way to thrive so that people wouldn't reject industry. It's natural selection. Therefore, technology evolves, and we are all the better for it. When the government trys to excessively intervene in this process, market evolution is stifled. We need profits and innovations for new energies to emerge and thrive. We shouldn't be rejecting clean coal and nuclear energy. Congress is doing exactly that. Perhaps they seek the credit for these innovations.

Personally, I just want more people who try their best to abide by the U.S. Constitution and protect our rights, left or right. As of now, we don't have that.

Money can drive a person to do evil things, but in the end, money is not the root of all evil. Money, profits, and self-interest act as motivators towards both personal and economic goals, whether that be an artistic masterpiece or a way to bring in more consumers. Selfishness is human nature. No act is completely selfless.

The Founding Fathers did spoil us. They wanted a nation of happy and prosperous people. They spoiled us with freedoms that were not often found in many other nations at the time. The reason some of us are in such fear of growing government power is because of their actions and what history shows us those actions can lead to. We can't trust the government with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Department of Education, foreign relations, budgets, taxes, the environment, or the economy. Excessive government intervention contributed greatly into getting us into this mess. Congress exercises corporate preference by bailing out and subsidizing corporations and institutions. When the government mandated certain banking loans, people ended up being cheated. With the government's larger-than-life budgets, more and more money continued to be endlessly printed by the Fed, resulting in inflation and currency degradation. With government in bed with corporations and bankers due to excessive intervention, our economy started to crumble.

The more freedoms we give up to our current regime - government, corporations, and banks combined - the closer we will move towards tyranny. I'm a radical right-wing libertarian, so I don't even think a little socialism is welcome in our country. Our U.S. Constitution just doesn't allow for it. What you need to realize is that when more power is concentrated into the government, more power is concentrated into the entire power structure. This means that the governmental-corporate alliance grows. This corrupt alliance is bringing us into a downward spiral. They have large-scale obligations to appease the global elite who literally want to rule the world - the Fed, the Bilderburg Group, the CFR...

The New World Order.

I suppose a good solution is education. If people learn about these problems then they will make better decisions and perhaps have smaller families.


The environment is STILL filthy. And on top of that there are even MORE people living in it. Solution? Clear more natural land to make way for housing for the extra people. Uggggghhh...

Don't worry though, you're right sadly, the free market will fix it's problems. By causing us to make the environment inhospitable for life and decimating the population. Then nature will take over again and the world will eventually clean itself of the impurities :)

We will then repopulate and repeat our mistakes.


We need people that try their best to get the best for their own country. We need the entire country as a WHOLE to try their best.


Globalization is the root of all evils...nah just kiddin...or am I?


Then were just going to crash and burn. I can't think of a better solution right now than government regulations. Were almost past the point of no return, yet everyone cries SOCIALISM!!! when our government tries to do what it was made for. Uniting our COUNTRY.

If people don't like the idea of government regulations so much why don't they use their brains and come up with a better solution?

Depends on what type of education. The good type or the government-funded brainwashing type?

The environment became cleaner after the Industrial Revolution when new energies emerged. That was the point I was trying to make. It will happen again, and I can assure you, unless free market solutions are stifled.

Coercion will demotivate them. I don't see how regulations and restrictions on personal freedoms will solve the issue at hand.

There a few definitions of globalism. Which type do you speak of?

Do you really put that much trust into our government? During the Bush era, the government proved it wasn't trying to unite people. Right now, in the Obama era, that isn't happening so far.

Wind power, solar power, hydroelectricity, and other forms of expensive energies have emerged. However, nuclear energy and clean coal, which are absolutely better than our dirtier energies, have also emerged, and they're much cheaper. People are finding solutions, but the government wants you to think otherwise.

ugh...you people are soooooo hopeless.



How will we fix these problems?



You have a better solution?

I mean I want everyone to have freedoms but we had our chance long ago to be motivated on our own as the people of the U.S to unite on our own to help solve these global problems but we really didn't do much now did we?

So we really don't deserve the freedoms of our country and because of our stubborn nature we will lose everything in the end unless we make some drastic changes, which we won't do on our own so the government has to make regulations and limit our freedom to solve these problems.

Hey, don't look at me like some socialist brainwashed dude, I want freedom too, but we haven't done squat with it so I don't think we deserve it.


I meant the mixing of cultures, technology and ideas as we trade and communicate with foreign countries and states.

From a strictly environmental view globalization hasn't improved anything.
From our view it's great, better technology from mixing of minds from around the world, right?

Well, even though we would be cavemen without it the world would be simpler and nicer and cultures and traditions would be preserved.

But we wouldn't have all of the medicine and technology of today. We are careless and greedy by nature so we need to keep globalization in check a bit, not exploit it so much for the worse.


Of course I don't put that much trust in our government, but what other solution is there? I guess our enilation from the planet would be the most helpful, but we don't want that so what else?



Oh we have solutions alright, none of which are actually practical for everyday use yet. When electric cars came out in California what did they do to them?

People don't want these cleaner energies it seems. I see a lot of potential but there needs to be more funding and effort put into their development.

Hopeless like a fox!

1. Property rights is key. Effectively penalize us for polluting on land that isn't ours, and eliminate all tort claims that make individuals and businesses immune to property rights violations (ex. pollution). Hold the government accountable for its high pollution levels.

2. Eliminate corporate welfare because it rewards us for pollution. It also interferes with companies who have clean energy solutions. Let the market run its natural course.

3. Sell off more government land and sell it to conservationists and private land owners who will be motivated by profit and self-interest to maintain and preserve the land and water for visitors and tourists, as cleaner land will bring in more people, which will bring in more profits as well. It's a win-win situation.

4. Let business owners make eco-friendly products less expensive, marketable, and profitable.

5. Do not ignore renewable resources. Business owners need to plant more trees and create more incentives for recycling, although coercion is not the answer. Lowering taxes is key, and it will put more money in everyone's pockets.

Read above, hun.

That doesn't mean we as a whole should be punished for it by giving the governmental-corporate alliance and the Federal Reserve more power over our lives. In addition, the government is the biggest polluter of all, so its not just citizens who are at fault.

Don't let the global elite and their puppets fool you into thinking you don't deserve what you have. The Founding Fathers spoiled us with freedoms that we must preserve. If we don't do that, then we won't have anything left. I'd rather die free than under a tyrannical and oppressive power structure.

Again, read above, dear.

Right, right. It's good for the market.

There is no way that the environment can be 100% preserved with humans living on it, so we must make the most of what we have and appreciate nature for what it's worth. We can do all we can to preserve what is left, and we must be grateful for what our Creator has bestowed upon us.

Speaking of cultures and traditions being preserved, let's preserve our Constitution, our core principles, and our freedom. Give me liberty or give me death! I won't let it slip away.

Let's end American imperialism and bring our troops back home. Eliminate corporate welfare, bailouts, and subsidies, and let the free market run its natural course.

I listed some free market solutions above that would actually be very effective, and I hope you can offer me some of your solutions as well, whether I agree with them or not.

I gotta admit that electric cars aren't very efficient, but clean coal and nuclear energy are the bomb. Let's try to put more focus on those.

While you may believe that funding should be by taxation, I think it should be by the free market and by voluntary charities provided both privately and by the government, which means no coercion. Environmentalism is a pretty big movement, so I'm sure many organizations would be willing to lend a hand, both through charity and through profit motive.