.:: {~ [T]he Official Brawl Stage Legality Discussio[n] ~} ::. - Mario Kart Wii - The Biggest Mario Kart Wii Forum
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.:: {~ [T]he Official Brawl Stage Legality Discussio[n] ~} ::.
 
 
08-05-2008, 03:38 PM
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Before you continue reading, this is entirely based on my opinion. In no way are you enforced to follow this. I merely created this just to give you the brief overlook of stages to pick in tournaments or if you want a fair match. I'm not trying to control what stages you pick, you don't need to follow this. Anyways, continuing on.

.:: {N}eutral Stage{s} ::.

Q. What is a neutral stage?
A. As the name implies, it's a stage that's completely neutral; no walk-offs, no stage hazards, and basically the stages that people will pick for fair fights. You really might want to play on these if you want good matches. =)

Battlefield

This stage has absolutely no hazards whatsoever. With an awe-spiring scenery, Battlefield has three platforms arranged in a triangular fashion, just like in Smash 64 and Melee. The stage also has soft edges, so most characters can slide along the edges as they recover from the bottom.

Final Destination

This stage is as neutral as it gets. With a beautiful scenery, Final Destination is ideal for brawls. It's also the common pick for Smashers with a lust for fair matches. There are no platforms in this stage. The edges have lips, making it hard for it to recover overall, because your character will sometimes be stuck in the ceiling of the lip, making it near impossible to recover afterwards. Unfortunately, in playing on this stage, you are more prone to projectiles. You might not want to play here if you have a tough time dealing with spammers.

Lylat Cruise

Straight from Star Fox, you fight on the Lylat Cruise, while obviously cruising through the wonders of the Lylat System. The scenery is always changing, so you won't be stuck with a boring stage. This stage has three platforms in a hemielliptical pattern. Despite the space battles in the background, this stage will not harm you. Be warned though, while venturing through the Lylat System, the Lylat Cruise will tilt to the left or the right, depending on the scenery. Also, using Fox's, Falco's, or Wolf's down taunt will commence a cameo sequence by Star Fox and Star Wolf.

Smashville

Right from Animal Crossing, Smashville! (Falchion's favorite neutral. <3) This stage is similar to Final Destination, only shorter in length. A long, narrow platform scrolls from the left to the right. Like Battlefield, this stage has soft edges, so you can slide along during a recovery. As you're fighting, some of the cast of Animal Crossing will witness your fight. Their expressions can change as well. On Saturdays at 8:00 p.m., K.K. Slider will make an appearance, and instead of the normal songs that play, one of K.K. Slider's songs will play exclusively for you. This is by far, one of the best neutral stages to play on. **** Final Destination, does that stage have a singing dog? I didn't think so. >_>

Yoshi's Island

This stage is from the game with the same name as the stage. Yup, Yoshi's Island. One of the few grounded stages. The scenery is very well-done, everything is straight from the game. Even the seasons will change from Spring, to Summer, to Fall, to Winter, and back to Spring again. There's a really long platform at the top, which tilts as the battle progresses. Occasionally, the Support Ghost will pop up out of nowhere, saving players who are thrown off. It's a really cool stage.


.:: {C}ounterpick Stage{s} ::.

Q. What is a counterpick stage?
A. A counterpick stage is a stage that a Smasher will choose that is not suited well for his opponent's character. A good example of this is when the Smasher chooses Port Town Aero Drive when the opponent plays Fox. When the platform is flying through the air, the ledges can't be grabbed, therefore with a short-range Fire Fox as well as a predictable Fox Illusion, Fox will have a hard time trying to get back on the platform.

Castle Siege

Although Castle Siege is a Fire Emblem stage, Castle Siege actually doesn't exist in any Fire Emblem game. However, it's definitely themed on it. The first phase of the stage is on top of a castle. The second phase is in the king's throne room. This part of the stage has walk-offs, so be careful. The third phase is underground, balancing on a stone in a lava cavern. In between phases, you will fight on a transitional stage (which lasts a couple of seconds) as you prepare to go on to the next phase of the stage. There are also walk-offs during the transitions. Be cautious for grab whores.

Delfino Plaza

Beautiful Isle Delfino. You travel on a platform, exploring the gorgeous and nostalgic areas of Isle Delfino. Sakurai seriously outdid himself on this one, because this stage is by far one of the most well-done. Although there are tiny details changed, this is practically Isle Delfino. You play on several areas of the island, some of them having walk-offs. Be careful when you're in the water, because you're prone to a water-KO. The game's best spikers will dominate you if you're not careful. Ness is one of the easiest characters to water-KO, because his D-Air is very powerful, and it will send you straight down.

Frigate Orpheon

A ship from Metroid Prime which Samus infiltrated. The Parasite Queen can be seen in the background (hence the vagina tail o,o). There's not much to this stage. When you hear a siren, that is your cue to get into the air, because the stage will flip 180°. If you don't move, you could be stuck somewhere unpleasant. From the sides, a platform will occasionally appear from the sides. Be careful though, because the platform withdraws itself very quickly.

Halberd

Yes, Meta-Knight's sweet ride. It owns Great Fox. Anyways, you start off in a hangar, which has walk-off ledges. A platform rises, and you are to get on it, obv. If you're left behind, you're KO'd. A minute into the match, and you land on the Halberd itself. In the scenery, you can see the Combo Cannon, a boss in Kirby Super Star. This stage has some hazards, but most of them you can see them coming. If you have good dodging, you'll love to enjoy this stage. This stage also has some of the best music, imo. This is the only stage you can play from the Subspace Emissary. During the SSE, when you're in the display room (which has all the enemies), you'll find one enemy that you can't fight anywhere else; its name is Mizzo.

Jungle Japes (Melee)

Jungle Japes is friendlier on Brawl, now that you can swim. =) It's a pretty good stage. Basic, simple, fun to play on in FFAs, etc. If you fall in the water, don't panic. You still have a chance to get back on the stage, but you gotta hurry; the water's really fast. Also, don't run into KlapTraps in the water. =x Other than that, there appear to be no changes from Melee.

Luigi's Mansion

Same as Yoshi's Island, name-wise. The stage is just weird. Plain weird. Helpfully, this stage prevents most projectiles getting past the pillars (some exceptions are R.O.B.'s Robo Beam). This stage also has ceilings, preventing most opportunities for a KO. Whenever you destroy a pillar, a bunch of Boos appear for a second. When you destroy all the pillars, you get a completely neutral area. With no distractions, fight for a KO that ceilings or pillars would normally prevent. However, after a while, the entire stage respawns, sending you back to square one.

PictoChat

Didn't see this stage coming. o.O Straight from the DS, you've got PictoChat. For amounts of time, the stage proves neutral. Then obstacles are drawn onto the stage, such as a roller coaster, a whale, a giant blowing across the stage, and much more. A cool feature about this stage is that on the text screen, it reads "Now entering:", followed by a random character. You can also perform the Earthquake glitch here. One of my favorites for fun FFAs. =P

Pokémon Stadium 2

Basically a remake of Pokémon Stadium from Melee. The only difference is a graphical update, more of a view from the crowd, and you have a wider selection of field changes. Also, some of the Pokémon that appear are from the Sinnoh region. Just play here like you did in Melee. ^_^
Last edited by Falchion-; 08-05-2008 at 05:16 PM.
 
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08-05-2008, 03:39 PM
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---[continued]---

Port Town Aero Dive

This is the place where the manliest entity was born (not the stage, mind you). His name is Captain Douglas Jay Falcon. This stage is a highly upgraded version of Melee's Mute City. Although the stage works the same, everything is slightly changed. The scenery is breathtaking, just like Delfino Plaza. The platform that flies around Port Town is also pretty cool to look at. Also, the cars hit VERY hard. Each ram makes you take 20%, but it sends you pretty damn far. Although if you have good awareness, you can dodge the cars easy and laugh as your opponent goes blasting off again. =) This stage has the BEST music, imo. White Land, Fire Field, Shotgun Kiss, my God. Who can argue with those songs?

Shadow Moses Island

This stage was actually designed by Hideo Kojima himself. The stage has breakable watchtowers (which then lead to walk-offs, be careful), a spotlight that if it shines on you, the famous "!" appears over your head (although you're in no danger when it happens), and occasionally, Metal Gear REX, Metal Gear RAY, or two GEKKOs will bust through the background (again, still no danger). This stage is fun for caged fights, but then quickly turns into KO or be KO'd when the watchtower is destroyed, since everyone will be crazy for that walk-off kill. Like Fox, Falco, and Wolf, Snake can also do codec messages that trigger conversations and explanations on Snake's opponent. If Snake is KO'd during the codec, the the person on the other end stops their speech and gives the infamous "SNAAAAAKE!" Game Over shout.

Pokémon Stadium (Melee)

Straight from Melee, it's Pokémon Stadium. Basically the same thing as Pokémon Stadium 2, only not as big, and doesn't have heightened graphics. The stage changes are still kept here. There appear to be no changes from the Melee version, which is a good thing. =)

.:: {B}anned Stage{s} ::.

Q. What is a banned stage?
A. A banned stage is a stage not allowed in tournament play due to several reasons. Some may be size, stage hazards, the stage itself, etc. While although some banned stages are fun to play on, others make you wonder, "Why the hell is that stage in this game?"

75M

Reason: This stage is too huge. It also has unpredictable stage hazards and walk-off edges.

Bridge of Eldin

Reason: The stage has walk-off edges and stage hazards. Plus, if you're playing with Smash Balls, you're prone to cheaters who can perform the stage glitch (if you're wondering what the glitch is, click here).

Distant Planet

Reason: The stage has walk-off edges and free ammunition. Also, the Red Bulborb is an instant-KO factor.

Flat Zone 2

Reason: The stage is way too small. It was walk-off edges and stage hazards everywhere.

Green Hill Zone

Reason: The stage has walk-off edges and a continuous stage hazard.

Hanenbow

Reason: The everchanging platforms make it hard to concentrate on the fight. Instead, you tend to concentrate on just staying alive. Also, the water is fake, which commonly misleads players.

Mario Bros.

Reason: Tons of walk-off edges and lots of stage hazards here. Plus, when you hit a stage enemy, you get free, powerful ammunition.

Mario Circuit

Reason: Walk-off edges once again. Plus, you have the Shy Guy racers who hit you if you get in the way.

Mushroomy Kingdom
<--->
Reason: A forever-scrolling stage. Depending on where you fight, there could be walk-off edges. When you fall in a pit, you die immediately, just like in Super Mario Bros. The pits often confuse the players, making it a really ridiculous stage for competitive play.

New Pork City

Reason: TOO HUGE. Coward players dominate here, because there's tons of area to run away from. Pit and Meta-Knight have the biggest advantages here, because they can fly anywhere quickly. Also, the Ultimate Chimera is an instant-KO factor.

Norfair

Reason: While although bigger than Brinstar, you're more prone to lava bursts everywhere. From the side, from the background, and after a minute or so, you get a giant tsunami of lava coming after you.

Pirate Ship

Reason: The bombs in the background are too powerful and destructive, and you usually don't tend to notice the first bomb hurled at you. Plus, the catapult, at high %, can prove to be an instant-KO factor. Also, the rudder of the ship is also an instant-KO factor if you linger under it.

Rumble Falls

Reason: Similar to Mushroomy Kingdom.

Skyworld

Reason: I'd be fine with this stage except for the breakable terrain. You can't grab onto the clouds afterwards. Plus, this stage literally reads out "GIMP KILLS HERE." You can get gimped so quickly it's not even funny, and there's tons of places to do it.

Spear Pillar

Reason: First, you get either Dialga, Palkia, or Cresselia. Dialga slows time, summons a beam, or gets off his pedestal to attack anyone who gets in his way. Palkia slows time, summons a beam, or reverses the screen (and your controls). Cresselia is by far the most annoying. She uses Psycho Cut to attack in random directions, or uses a boomerang version of Dialga/Palkia's beam.

Summit

Reason: Again, this stage would be pretty cool EXCEPT FOR THE FISH. They're an instant-KO factor.

WarioWare, Inc.

Reason: Winning a microgame gives you star power, giant, reduces damage, or gives you an item (if you're playing with items). It kinda proves unfair.

Big Blue

Reason: There are walk-off edges on both sides of the stage. Also, if you get spiked onto the floor, it's really hard to get back on the stage because of the fast-scrolling track.

Brinstar

Reason: Similar to Norfair.

Corneria

Reason: They seriously messed up the dimensions on this stage. A Jigglypuff can die on the fin of the Great Fox if you hit her with say, Capt. Falcon's fully-charged U-Smash. That's not how it was in Melee. Also, there are the Arwings that shoot at you.

Green Greens

Reason: Again, the dimensions are messed up. The bomb blocks also prove harmful if you're near the detonation.

Onett

Reason: There are walk-off edges. Plus, although the cars are easy to dodge, if you get hit by one, you take 30% on the spot.

Rainbow Cruise

Reason: Olawd another moving stage. <_< >_> <_>

Temple

Reason: The perfect FFA stage. However, not so much the best singles stage. Like New Pork City, it's too huge. Plus, the stage is good environment for camping scrubs.

Yoshi's Island

Reason: The stage is way too small. Plus, there are walk-off edges.


And this concludes my opinion on the Brawl Stage Legality. Feedback is very welcome. =)
Last edited by Falchion-; 08-05-2008 at 04:48 PM.
 
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08-05-2008, 05:29 PM
  #3 (permalink)  
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Nice analysis. Walk-offs are evil.
 
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08-05-2008, 05:45 PM
  #4 (permalink)  
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This is a good guide for metagame players. Great work man.
 
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08-05-2008, 08:26 PM
  #5 (permalink)  
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Man, great post, I agree with almost everything you said.

So this isn't a "official" list yet, right?
I mean, it's pretty much accurate on my opinion too, but I don't get some choices:
- Castle Siege being a counter-pick with the walk-off ledges (that are present on a good part of the battle) while Distant Planet is banned because of a walk-off ledge and a temporary Bulborb that is not that hard to evict.
- Port Town Aero Drive with the overpowered cars being a counter-pick while The Summit being banned 'cause of an occasional fish (that is not that hard to dodge). The cars can kill you easily, it's not a one-hit KO like the fish but it's not very distant of this too, and they can be a pain to be dodged with certain characters, more than the fish. Not talking about the moving parts that gimps the characters with tether recoveries. I think that Norfair and Brinstar should be counter-picks for the same reasons, the lava isn't that hard to dodge, specially on Brinstar.
- The reason for Frigate Orpheon not being neutral is the 180ş flip? Because it affects the battle as much as the Support Ghost on YI in my opinion... well, maybe I haven't think too much about this too.

And yes, I'm also really sad about the ledges of FD and how they messed up Corneria and Green Greens, they were much better on Melee =\
 
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08-05-2008, 08:38 PM
  #6 (permalink)  
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Good Guide! I think this needs to be stickyied
 
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08-05-2008, 08:51 PM
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Thats cool.
In my opinion The DK level with the running water is unfair because characters like kirby can survive easier. Everything else though, I agree.
 
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08-06-2008, 12:52 AM
  #8 (permalink)  
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QUOTE:
Originally Posted by shalnark. View Post
Man, great post, I agree with almost everything you said.

So this isn't a "official" list yet, right?
I mean, it's pretty much accurate on my opinion too, but I don't get some choices:
- Castle Siege being a counter-pick with the walk-off ledges (that are present on a good part of the battle) while Distant Planet is banned because of a walk-off ledge and a temporary Bulborb that is not that hard to evict.
- Port Town Aero Drive with the overpowered cars being a counter-pick while The Summit being banned 'cause of an occasional fish (that is not that hard to dodge). The cars can kill you easily, it's not a one-hit KO like the fish but it's not very distant of this too, and they can be a pain to be dodged with certain characters, more than the fish. Not talking about the moving parts that gimps the characters with tether recoveries. I think that Norfair and Brinstar should be counter-picks for the same reasons, the lava isn't that hard to dodge, specially on Brinstar.
- The reason for Frigate Orpheon not being neutral is the 180ş flip? Because it affects the battle as much as the Support Ghost on YI in my opinion... well, maybe I haven't think too much about this too.

And yes, I'm also really sad about the ledges of FD and how they messed up Corneria and Green Greens, they were much better on Melee =\
No, it's not official, lol. I'm not a master at Smash to decide everything.

Castle Siege is neutral throughout the entire stage. And only one phase is walk-off. The phases don't last too long. While in Distant Planet, there's an obvious one the entire match. Also, water pours down on the ridge which makes it very hard for most to recover. And you forgot the pellets, which are used as ammunition. I know the Bulborb doesn't KO always, but it's still there.

In Port Town Aero Dive, you can see the cars coming from the background. If you're alert, you can dodge them. This goes for every stage, really. Plus, the cars don't come EVERY time you're dropped off on the track. The Summit's fish are instant-KO. Knowing this, everyone will be in a frenzy to throw the other Smasher into the water. The fish comes imminent while you're in the water. Plus, there's the icicles that drop from the ceiling. And when the mountain is sliding, if you fall behind, it's an instant-KO.

I thought about Brinstar, and I might consider. Norfair however, no. Simply because of how the stage is set up. It's all platforms. Plus the lava's way stronger here than in Brinstar.

I'm sorry, but Frigate Orpheon isn't neutral. XP The Support Ghost helps the players, not harm them. Besides, the Support Ghost doesn't appear all the time. It quickly goes back down anyways. I'm not sure if you know, but if you're on the edge while the siren is on, if you grab someone and throw them forward quickly, it's an instant kill. Although it's very hard to pull off. For the most part, Frigate Orpheon is neutral, except for that flip.

But thanks for constructive criticism. You're the most helpful so far. ^_^
 
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08-06-2008, 05:57 AM
  #9 (permalink)  
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I know you're not a master at Smash or anything (ok, I don't know, I just suppose you aren't =P), I was just asking if that list of Neutral, Counter-pick and Banned stages was already something officially accepted on the Brawl tournament world or something that you thought out. The commentaries were obviously yours, but the definition of each stage wasn't that clear to me... sorry, I will read more carefully next time =)

Well, anyway, seeing your reply I understand better your choices now. It makes much sense.

But on Port Town Aero Drive there is a moment when the cars come from the side of the screen and I don't believe you can see them coming (unless you decor the stage or something), and at the moment the cars are passing by you can throw your enemy on track too (like the fish thing), the ones with short jumps (like Link and Ganondorf) have a really tough time there. But this is what defines a counter-pick anyway (and this moment is really short), so ok, I understood the choice.

I didn't know that Frigate Orpheon thing, I can see it not being neutral now. I thought that the flip was simple to avoid because of the siren and the effect was not that much of a problem..... but an instant kill is a big problem for sure.

Just one more thing. You said that the free ammunition on Distant Planet (and other stages) is a bad thing..... I didn't get it (yeah, I'm not that smart =P). I mean, most characters on the game already have free ammunition (projectiles), why having it on a stage is a bad thing? It's not even a powerful one. Giving projectiles to characters that doesn't naturally have a projectile attack is unfair? Is that it?

And thanks! Any time you need a person to disagree with you I will be here ^^
Last edited by shalnark.; 08-06-2008 at 03:52 PM.
 
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08-06-2008, 03:57 PM
  #10 (permalink)  
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QUOTE:
Originally Posted by shalnark. View Post
I know you're not a master at Smash or anything (ok, I don't know, I just suppose you aren't =P), I was just asking if that list of Neutral, Counter-pick and Banned stages was already something officially accepted on the Brawl tournament world or something that you thought out. The commentaries were obviously yours, but the definition of each stage wasn't that clear to me... sorry, I will read more cautiously next time =)

Well, anyway, seeing your reply I understand better your choices now. It makes much sense.

But on Port Town Aero Drive there is a moment when the cars come from the side of the screen and I don't believe you can see them coming (unless you decor the stage or something), and at the moment the cars are passing by you can throw your enemy on track too (like the fish thing), the ones with short jumps (like Link and Ganondorf) have a really tough time there. But this is what defines a counter-pick anyway (and this moment is really short), so ok, I understood the choice.

I didn't know that Frigate Orpheon thing, I can see it not being neutral now. I thought that the flip was simple to avoid because of the siren and the effect was not that much of a problem..... but an instant kill is a big problem for sure.

Just one more thing. You said that the free ammunition on Distant Planet (and other stages) is a bad thing..... I didn't get it (yeah, I'm not that smart =P). I mean, most characters on the game already have free ammunition (projectiles), why having it on a stage is a bad thing? It's not even a powerful one. Giving projectiles to characters that doesn't naturally have a projectile attack is unfair? Is that it?

And thanks! Any time you need a person to disagree with you I will be here ^^
This exact one, no. But mine is somewhat close. XP

On Port Town, you can see the cars coming anywhere, with the exception on the part where the platforms imitate Battlefield's and the track inverts upward on the left (because the cars are coming on the right, so what you do is get on the highest platform), and the part where there's two platforms on the left and right and a huge gap in the middle (what you do is get on either platform). But most of the time you can see the cars coming.

Most tournaments ban items because of the throwing and other things (most of the items can be thrown anyway). With free ammunition, it kinda goes against this. Same with Zero Suit Samus' suit remains (in most tournaments I've seen, any Zero Suit Samus players have to throw all their projectiles off first). Plus there's the walk-off and the stage hazard (water slide). The only stage I'd ban solely for ammunition would be Mario Bros.

Thanks again. XP
 
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